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	<title>Comments for Citizen Tools</title>
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	<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com</link>
	<description>It's up to us.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:13:42 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Describe now, define later &#8211; a better way to understand Life 2.0 by Beth Offenbacker</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2010/describe-now-define-later-a-better-way-to-understand-life-2-0/comment-page-1#comment-1205</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth Offenbacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizentools.netalyst.com/?p=241#comment-1205</guid>
		<description>Great post, Chris; I agree completely.  I think the definition is changing due to practice.  Whereas &#039;traditional&#039; crowdsourcing is about voting - quantitative measures of what&#039;s popular (even the &quot;Like&quot; button on FB), I see crowdsourcing also morphing into qualitative discussions.  We don&#039;t have to have a &#039;count&#039; of something per se to come to an agreement. 

What I&#039;d like to see is some technology that parses qualitative data without a lot of the post event coding that makes it tedious (maybe like a souped-up word cloud? / but better).  I&#039;m hoping there will be just as much emphasis on qualitative outcomes as the quantitative ones down the road.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Chris; I agree completely.  I think the definition is changing due to practice.  Whereas &#8216;traditional&#8217; crowdsourcing is about voting &#8211; quantitative measures of what&#8217;s popular (even the &#8220;Like&#8221; button on FB), I see crowdsourcing also morphing into qualitative discussions.  We don&#8217;t have to have a &#8216;count&#8217; of something per se to come to an agreement. </p>
<p>What I&#8217;d like to see is some technology that parses qualitative data without a lot of the post event coding that makes it tedious (maybe like a souped-up word cloud? / but better).  I&#8217;m hoping there will be just as much emphasis on qualitative outcomes as the quantitative ones down the road.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Invest failure wisely to generate insights for better government by Lovisa</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2010/invest-failure-wisely-to-generate-insights-for-better-government/comment-page-1#comment-1187</link>
		<dc:creator>Lovisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizentools.netalyst.com/?p=200#comment-1187</guid>
		<description>Hi Chris!

Thanks for your comments to my original post  http://lovisawilliams.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/failure-is-not-an-option.  

I agree with you. Once we realize failure is ok we can move on to how we do work.  I do think allowing for more experimentation, iterative development and some controlled experiments would be a great way to go.  We just have to get people to realize things don&#039;t always work out as we would like and that&#039;s ok.

Thanks for your comments!  I always enjoy additional thinking on this topic.

-Lovisa</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Chris!</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments to my original post  <a href="http://lovisawilliams.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/failure-is-not-an-option" rel="nofollow">http://lovisawilliams.wordpress.com/2010/08/03/failure-is-not-an-option</a>.  </p>
<p>I agree with you. Once we realize failure is ok we can move on to how we do work.  I do think allowing for more experimentation, iterative development and some controlled experiments would be a great way to go.  We just have to get people to realize things don&#8217;t always work out as we would like and that&#8217;s ok.</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments!  I always enjoy additional thinking on this topic.</p>
<p>-Lovisa</p>
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		<title>Comment on The house always wins: the ethics of participatory planning? by Beth Offenbacker</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2008/the-house-always-wins-%e2%80%93-the-ethics-of-participatory-planning/comment-page-1#comment-1185</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth Offenbacker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 21:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ctold.netalyst.org/2008/the-house-always-wins-%e2%80%93-the-ethics-of-participatory-planning#comment-1185</guid>
		<description>The questions that Chris raises and that Tim discusses are good ones.

One related question I have pondered often is, &quot;How can we be neutral advocates for a process when we haven&#039;t designed it?&quot;

More and more I hear that processes are specified up front in the RFP.  In these instances they aren&#039;t really drawing on our experience about what works best in engaging people, we are just worker bees.

Moreover, the pre-designed process may or may not comply with ethical guidelines for the profession.  (And the question of which code of ethics should apply is an interesting one too.)

How do people handle this kind of situation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The questions that Chris raises and that Tim discusses are good ones.</p>
<p>One related question I have pondered often is, &#8220;How can we be neutral advocates for a process when we haven&#8217;t designed it?&#8221;</p>
<p>More and more I hear that processes are specified up front in the RFP.  In these instances they aren&#8217;t really drawing on our experience about what works best in engaging people, we are just worker bees.</p>
<p>Moreover, the pre-designed process may or may not comply with ethical guidelines for the profession.  (And the question of which code of ethics should apply is an interesting one too.)</p>
<p>How do people handle this kind of situation?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The house always wins: the ethics of participatory planning? by The Ethics of Public Participation</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2008/the-house-always-wins-%e2%80%93-the-ethics-of-participatory-planning/comment-page-1#comment-1184</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ethics of Public Participation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Aug 2010 19:11:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ctold.netalyst.org/2008/the-house-always-wins-%e2%80%93-the-ethics-of-participatory-planning#comment-1184</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;It seems the topic of ethics and integrity in public participation is coming up more often these days (see my comments here, here). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;It seems the topic of ethics and integrity in public participation is coming up more often these days (see my comments here, here). [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on The house always wins: the ethics of participatory planning? by Tim Bonnemann</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2008/the-house-always-wins-%e2%80%93-the-ethics-of-participatory-planning/comment-page-1#comment-1183</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Bonnemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 18:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ctold.netalyst.org/2008/the-house-always-wins-%e2%80%93-the-ethics-of-participatory-planning#comment-1183</guid>
		<description>The most solid framework I have seen in this area comes from IAP2. Check out their Code of Ethics for Public Participation Practitioners (http://bit.ly/c5OO5I) as well as their Core Values for the Practice of Public Participation (http://bit.ly/cughAw).

This is how you achieve the integrity that quality public participation requires.

In the scenario you outline above, it sounds like the project sponsors weren&#039;t acting in good faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most solid framework I have seen in this area comes from IAP2. Check out their Code of Ethics for Public Participation Practitioners (<a href="http://bit.ly/c5OO5I" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/c5OO5I</a>) as well as their Core Values for the Practice of Public Participation (<a href="http://bit.ly/cughAw" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/cughAw</a>).</p>
<p>This is how you achieve the integrity that quality public participation requires.</p>
<p>In the scenario you outline above, it sounds like the project sponsors weren&#8217;t acting in good faith.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Brownie points, or results? by ase</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2010/brownie-points-or-results/comment-page-1#comment-1168</link>
		<dc:creator>ase</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jun 2010 17:12:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizentools.netalyst.com/?p=171#comment-1168</guid>
		<description>Fed&#039;s have done a great job with open gov&#039;t. However, some train the trainer would be nice for open gov&#039;t workshops, since State and Local&#039;s are more the frontline to the people. State/Local gov&#039;t could take the training and train to their levels of Gov&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fed&#8217;s have done a great job with open gov&#8217;t. However, some train the trainer would be nice for open gov&#8217;t workshops, since State and Local&#8217;s are more the frontline to the people. State/Local gov&#8217;t could take the training and train to their levels of Gov&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grow your own metrics for online engagement by Rob Goodspeed</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2010/grow-your-own-metrics-for-online-engagement/comment-page-1#comment-1159</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Goodspeed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 21:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizentools.netalyst.com/?p=162#comment-1159</guid>
		<description>Chris, I agree with you the best approach to take is to look at objectives/goals, and then craft measurements. I (finally) jumped into the original thread - I&#039;d love to hear your thoughts:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://groups.dowire.org/r/post/5y2KD0PI0W30glRzKuQOfR&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://groups.dowire.org/r/post/5y2KD0PI0W30glRzKuQOfR&lt;/a&gt;

Rob</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I agree with you the best approach to take is to look at objectives/goals, and then craft measurements. I (finally) jumped into the original thread &#8211; I&#8217;d love to hear your thoughts:<br />
<a href="http://groups.dowire.org/r/post/5y2KD0PI0W30glRzKuQOfR" rel="nofollow">http://groups.dowire.org/r/post/5y2KD0PI0W30glRzKuQOfR</a></p>
<p>Rob</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grow your own metrics for online engagement by Chris Berendes</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2010/grow-your-own-metrics-for-online-engagement/comment-page-1#comment-1152</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Berendes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 16:31:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizentools.netalyst.com/?p=162#comment-1152</guid>
		<description>Tim - Thanks for the comment.

I agree that, &lt;em&gt;once you&#039;ve identified your objectives&lt;/em&gt;, digging into the numbers can be very productive. For instance, Steve Clift has suggested that it&#039;s useful to aim for having at least 10% of the households in the community join the particular forum. It&#039;d be interesting to see whether forums that meet that threshold generally do better on the &quot;story-based&quot; measures I suggested. If so, then Steve&#039;s &quot;gut feel&quot; would be validated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim &#8211; Thanks for the comment.</p>
<p>I agree that, <em>once you&#8217;ve identified your objectives</em>, digging into the numbers can be very productive. For instance, Steve Clift has suggested that it&#8217;s useful to aim for having at least 10% of the households in the community join the particular forum. It&#8217;d be interesting to see whether forums that meet that threshold generally do better on the &#8220;story-based&#8221; measures I suggested. If so, then Steve&#8217;s &#8220;gut feel&#8221; would be validated.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Grow your own metrics for online engagement by Tim Bonnemann</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2010/grow-your-own-metrics-for-online-engagement/comment-page-1#comment-1151</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Bonnemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 16:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizentools.netalyst.com/?p=162#comment-1151</guid>
		<description>Good post.

I agree you need to start knowing your objectives and then align your metrics accordingly.

While it&#039;s true that quantitative data is often not ultimately sufficient I think there&#039;s a lot more that can be done by just slicing and dicing some of the basics you mention above:

A total membership of 128 may not be very insightful. But how many of these are active participants (e.g. have logged in and/or commented at least once over the past 30 days)?

How many are starting new topics? How many are just replying? What&#039;s the comment distribution curve across all participants and how does it develop over time?

Etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post.</p>
<p>I agree you need to start knowing your objectives and then align your metrics accordingly.</p>
<p>While it&#8217;s true that quantitative data is often not ultimately sufficient I think there&#8217;s a lot more that can be done by just slicing and dicing some of the basics you mention above:</p>
<p>A total membership of 128 may not be very insightful. But how many of these are active participants (e.g. have logged in and/or commented at least once over the past 30 days)?</p>
<p>How many are starting new topics? How many are just replying? What&#8217;s the comment distribution curve across all participants and how does it develop over time?</p>
<p>Etc.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Yell at your Senator, or listen to your neighbors? Another use for Govluv and Twitter. by Wayne Moses Burke</title>
		<link>http://citizentools.netalyst.com/2009/yell-at-your-senator-or-listen-to-your-neighbors-another-use-for-govluv-and-twitter/comment-page-1#comment-1146</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne Moses Burke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://citizentools.netalyst.com/?p=141#comment-1146</guid>
		<description>Chris, I think you hit the nail on the head here (s0rry I was so slow in actually reading your post).

I think the future of communication between citizens and governments is in ongoing, public, transparent discussions around every issue. Representatives can tap into these discussions for information about how they should vote when it is the right time in the legislative (meaning law-making) cycle, or participate in them more regularly if it is an issue that they are passionate about or that is particularly pertinent to their district.

Of course, Twitter is an ongoing public conversation about every issue right now. And GovLuv is a first attempt to enable representatives to use it to understand citizen sentiment and engage with them in a meaningful way.

Thanks for your thoughtful post about GovLuv and where it may be headed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I think you hit the nail on the head here (s0rry I was so slow in actually reading your post).</p>
<p>I think the future of communication between citizens and governments is in ongoing, public, transparent discussions around every issue. Representatives can tap into these discussions for information about how they should vote when it is the right time in the legislative (meaning law-making) cycle, or participate in them more regularly if it is an issue that they are passionate about or that is particularly pertinent to their district.</p>
<p>Of course, Twitter is an ongoing public conversation about every issue right now. And GovLuv is a first attempt to enable representatives to use it to understand citizen sentiment and engage with them in a meaningful way.</p>
<p>Thanks for your thoughtful post about GovLuv and where it may be headed&#8230;</p>
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