p2chat September 7, 2010

Beth Offenbacker of Public Decisions hosts #p2chat, a weekly chat on public participation, Tuesdays at 6pm Eastern/3pm Pacific.

This is the archive of tweets for the September 7 chat.

PublicDecisionsHowdy folks! Welcome to #P2Chat for Tues Sept 7. Today’s topics are #crowdsourcing & handling comments. Let’s get started!^09/07/10 05:30 PM ET

PublicDecisionsPlease introduce yourself…be sure to use #P2Chat when posting so others can see your posts (and we can archive it too)^09/07/10 05:46 PM ET

PublicDecisionsBeth Offenbacker @PublicDecisions We use technology to enhance public engmt through our distinctive online pgms confs & training #P2Chat^09/07/10 05:59 PM ET

intelliticsIntroductions for #P2Chat: Intellitics is a participation startup based in San José CA. We develop @zilino.^09/07/10 06:00 PM ET

citizentoolsChris Berendes Netalyst CTO dealt w/comment flood as USDOT CRM team lead after 9/11 If only we’d had ideascale etc. back then… #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:02 PM ET

PublicDecisionsQuick poll: how many folks here have had experience with crowdsourcing vs. are checking it out? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:02 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions Been watching the intersection btwn crowdsourcing and public participation for a while now. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:04 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHave one proj in past (didn’t call it crowdsrcing tho) and have small new one now #p2Chat^09/07/10 06:06 PM ET

PublicDecisionsThanks @2ndOpinionLive sounds like gr8resource! "Our users hve bn enjoying "personal crowdsourcing" via Second Opinion iPhone app" #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:08 PM ET

citizentoolsMostly “checking out” I’ve confronted the general question of “here’s 1000 comments. now what?” more than once. #p2chat^09/07/10 06:10 PM ET

PublicDecisionspt 2…my experience in past didn’t use all cool crowdsourcing tools now avail…very impressive array that’s blossomed lately! #P2chat^09/07/10 06:10 PM ET

citizentoolsRT @2ndOpinionLive: @PublicDecisions Our users have been enjoying “personal crowdsourcing” via the Second Opinion iPhone app #p2chat^09/07/10 06:11 PM ET

ccfkcIntro for #P2Chat. CCF is a civic engagement nonprofit in King County WA. Existed primarily offline & building a new online program^09/07/10 06:11 PM ET

PublicDecisionsMaybe good place 2 start is how to build crowdsourcing into overall p2 approach? decision criteria to use w comments etc? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:12 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHi @ccfkc! Welcome to #P2Chat ^09/07/10 06:13 PM ET

intelliticsThe term “crowdsourcing” is often applied incorrectly. Helps to get clear on definitions every once in a while: http://bit.ly/aNfwSP #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:14 PM ET

PublicDecisions…what is promise to the public (@IAp2 spectrum) for comments via crowdsourcing?? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:15 PM ET

citizentoolsSuggest how ppl offer input is imprtnt distinctn – in wikip crowdsource (cs) via edits; in Mech TUrk cs via all sorts of actions #p2chat^09/07/10 06:17 PM ET

PublicDecisionsGr8 post @intellitics…do you think that the term has evolved in recent months w growth in tools from what originally written?? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:17 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics so for #crowdsource single input generally not that imported or respected – it’s one of 100′s or 1000′s #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:18 PM ET

PublicDecisions@ccfkc wld be interested in hearing about your online comm do you use crowdsourcing or considering? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:20 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions That’s often the problem! Opening up the comment/idea box but no concept how input should/can/will be used. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:21 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools makes me also think of who has control…does public have final say (Empower) or sponsor (Inform)? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:21 PM ET

citizentools@ccfkc Hey welcome! what’s your interest experience in #crowdsourcing? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:22 PM ET

transprVery good! RT @intellitics: The term “crowdsourcing” needs definition every once in a while: http://bit.ly/aNfwSP #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:22 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics I regret now suggesting that comments=crowdsourcing. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:23 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics Power of crowdsourcing is that it *is* action (e.g. wiki edit photo tag) that doesn’t require further processing #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:23 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHave not seen alotof postcrowdsourcing reports after …what was heard decided why etc.? Any good ex out there folks can point 2? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:23 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions The definition is pretty clear not sure it should change. The term’s definitely being overused in my view. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:24 PM ET

PublicDecisionsI C distinction btwn Wiki edit vs spons site like Ideascale etc tho/Crowd may offer input govt usually has final say #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:25 PM ET

PublicDecisionsExample of using crowdsourcing for ideas suggestions http://bit.ly/4FdJKZ #p2chat^09/07/10 06:25 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions so in some cs projs “boiling down” is intrinsic (e.g. wiki edits); in others it happens later if at all #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:28 PM ET

PublicDecisionsNew fed crowdsourcing project Challenge.gov to launch in next few weeks for exploration and innovation http://bit.ly/9Lr40M #p2chat^09/07/10 06:29 PM ET

citizentools@transpr Welcome – join the chat. What’s your #crowdsourcing interest experience? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:31 PM ET

PublicDecisionsQ: how are crowdsourcing efforts differnt than comments submitted electr under fed rulemaking? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:31 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHi @transpr! welcome to the #p2chat discussion!^09/07/10 06:31 PM ET

intelliticsGreat #crowdsourcing flow chart by @nraford. Policy making/public participation doesn’t always seem to fit in: http://bit.ly/cyiZYn #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:32 PM ET

PublicDecisionsperhaps comments do not hve commitment for public to vote on?? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:33 PM ET

transpartisanCommenting & brainstorming are not same as “crowdsourcing” BUT they are components of it. So its easy for ppl to get confused. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:33 PM ET

citizentoolsRT @ccfkc: @PublicDecisions We currently use survey tool to quantify results & working on new ways to capture qualitative responses #p2chat^09/07/10 06:34 PM ET

citizentoolsRT @ccfkc: The main thing we use #crowdsourcing for is to identify key issues for local policy-makers //#p2chat^09/07/10 06:35 PM ET

PublicDecisionsSeveral posts/resources from @DelibThinks on crowdsourcing http://bit.ly/br1vDl #p2chat^09/07/10 06:35 PM ET

transpr@citizentools @PublicDecisions Thx for the welcome! Been wanting to join in! Do PR/PI for gov clients. #p2chat^09/07/10 06:36 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHi @transpartisan welcome to #P2Chat!^09/07/10 06:36 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions say more about “commitment to voice on” … #p2chat^09/07/10 06:36 PM ET

transprThink more and more gov is going to utilize #crowdsourcing but like social media term may scare many #p2chat^09/07/10 06:37 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools wonder how many orgs commit 2 how will use/consider data fr csourcing in dec mking? agree w @transpr may b exception #p2chat^09/07/10 06:37 PM ET

PublicDecisionssee two types of csourcing themes here…data citizens create selves/modify vote on control vs that submitted 4 others 2 consider #p2chat^09/07/10 06:38 PM ET

intelliticsReporting graffiti/potholes is a great #crowdsourcing opportunity. Deciding how to allocate scarce budget resources not so much. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:39 PM ET

PublicDecisionsGood story here in Guardian (UK) about govt challengs of csourcing…noting failures of http://bit.ly/crp4uh #p2chat^09/07/10 06:41 PM ET

transpartisan@PublicDecisions – Federal rulemaking is crowdsourcing. In both cases Commenting does the same thing. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:42 PM ET

PublicDecisionsAny good metrics anyone can suggest for csourcing?? use soc media metrics or others?? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:42 PM ET

citizentools@transpartisan Welcome Steve. What do you think is required to call a process “crowdsourcing”? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:42 PM ET

transpr1st challenge is buy in 2nd is to get funds toward it. RT @PublicDecisions: @citizentools … agree w @transpr may b exception #p2chat^09/07/10 06:42 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat leaning away from calling regulatory comments “crowdsourcing”. To me essence of cs is that an individual contrib is not important.^09/07/10 06:43 PM ET

PublicDecisionsTwo other resources from @DelibThinks http://bit.ly/aji7kL also Dialogue App (http://bit.ly/aJrPMC / http://bit.ly/djfuD7 #p2chat^09/07/10 06:43 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions Except… “Programme for Government” was not a #crowdsourcing exercise. The Guardian mislabeled that one big time. #P2chat^09/07/10 06:45 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat e.g. wikipedia under no obligation to preserve my edit; Mechanical Turk customer need not accept my bit of work^09/07/10 06:45 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions re metrics: first did the task get done (the LoC photos labeled? the potholes found?) #p2chat^09/07/10 06:46 PM ET

intelliticsMy latest post tries to clarify (I’ve written about that project several times): http://bit.ly/ci19va #P2Chat #edem^09/07/10 06:46 PM ET

PublicDecisionsother csourcing info sent in 2day…from @ascentum “Crowdsourcing: 5 Reasons Why It‚Äôs Here to Stay” http://bit.ly/aPyRXx #p2chat^09/07/10 06:47 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools maybe also metric…(like soc media) visitors vs unique visitors…and participation rate among them #p2chat^09/07/10 06:48 PM ET

intelliticsRT @twipcast: FYI two of our five pilot episodes focused on #crowdsourcing: http://bit.ly/a4Q3EG #P2Chat #edem #gov20^09/07/10 06:48 PM ET

transprRT @PublicDecisions: from @ascentum ” #Crowdsourcing: 5 Reasons Why It‚Äôs Here to Stay” http://bit.ly/aPyRXx #p2chat #opengov #gov20^09/07/10 06:50 PM ET

transpartisan@intellitics cited the definition of the word’s originator. But where does it say that it’s only for small problems (eg potholes)? #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:50 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHow diverse is crowdsourcing…in democracy are only ppl with latest/coolest toys posting?? any data anyone’s seen? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:50 PM ET

PublicDecisions@transpartisan maybe definition of csourcing is in transition? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:51 PM ET

citizentools@transpartisan of course some potholes in DC (and of course Boston as well) as hardly “small” #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:51 PM ET

intellitics@transpartisan #Crowdsourcing can be applied to massive problems/challenges (e.g. Netflix Prize) key is to understand what kind. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:53 PM ET

transpr@PublicDecisions I think #crowdsourcing like #socialmedia other #PR tools is one tool to use in outreach strategy. #p2chat^09/07/10 06:53 PM ET

PublicDecisionsR local govts using crowdsourcing to same degree as fed? how about state govts? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:54 PM ET

transprDfinitions meaningless? More abt what needed 4 specific effort. RT @PublicDecisions: @transpartisan definition in transition? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:54 PM ET

athenabridgeWith new tools government crowdsourcing efforts may eventually evolve far beyond comments/ideas and toward conversation/dialogue. #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:55 PM ET

transprVery few in both cases. Still catching up w/ social media. RT @PublicDecisions: R local govts? how about state govts? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:56 PM ET

intelliticsBeen trying to work out the key items to consider before using #crowdsourcing in #publicengmt: http://bit.ly/8zYfU0 #P2Chat #edem^09/07/10 06:56 PM ET

PublicDecisions@transpr would csourcing also be type of socmed? see gray areas there I guess; agree/disagr? @ccfkc does that square w yr exp too? #p2chat^09/07/10 06:57 PM ET

transprListening now! Good! RT @intellitics: RT @twipcast: audio on #crowdsourcing: http://bit.ly/a4Q3EG #P2Chat #edem #gov20^09/07/10 06:58 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHi @athenabridge welcome to #p2chat!^09/07/10 06:58 PM ET

ccfkc@PublicDecisions The City of Seattle http://bit.ly/dl20QD and Washington State http://bit.ly/cDJkeN are both using #crowdsourcing #P2Chat^09/07/10 06:58 PM ET

citizentoolsI want to sound the @intellitics note here: it turns out that there are web-based processes that aren’t crowdsourcing … #p2chat^09/07/10 06:59 PM ET

PublicDecisionsTime flies…! fantastic discussion tonight!! suggestions for next week? more on csourcing comments or new topic?? #p2chat^09/07/10 07:00 PM ET

transpartisan@intellitics – Where does the definition of “crowdsourcing” limit itself on the range of problems that it might solve? #P2Chat^09/07/10 07:00 PM ET

transpr@PublicDecisions I believe strongly it’s all meshing and tools now allow tailored use to fit needs of project. #p2chat^09/07/10 07:01 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics what I like in this post: crowdsourcing does not require representativeness or stakeholders. +1 #p2chat^09/07/10 07:02 PM ET

PublicDecisions@ccfkc have not seen these…thanks 4 sending. Great examples of local govt leading way! #p2chat^09/07/10 07:02 PM ET

intelliticsGreat you guys join the #P2Chat today: @transpartisan @transpr @athenabridge @ccfkc (also @ascentum and @DelibThinks via time warp). ^09/07/10 07:02 PM ET

intelliticsRT @citizentools: @intellitics what I like in this post: crowdsourcing does not require representativeness or stakeholders. +1 #p2chat^09/07/10 07:02 PM ET

PublicDecisions@ccfkc oops also state level too #p2chat^09/07/10 07:03 PM ET

transprHad fun! Thanks for the kind welcome #p2chat and @citizentools @intellitics @PublicDecisions^09/07/10 07:04 PM ET

PublicDecisionsSee y’all next week! many thanks 2 @intellitics @transpartisan @citizentools @athenabridge @transpr @ccfkc 4 participating! #p2chat^09/07/10 07:04 PM ET

PublicDecisionsRT @intellitics: Great #crowdsourcing flow chart by @nraford. Policy making/public participation doesn’t always seem to fit in: http://bit.ly/cyiZYn #P2Chat^09/07/10 07:05 PM ET

ccfkcThanks @PublicDecisions @citizentools & @intellics! Looking forward to next week’s #P2Chat^09/07/10 07:07 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions Ditto to all. Thanks. See ya. #p2chat^09/07/10 07:13 PM ET

ccfkcThanks @PublicDecisions @citizentools & @intellitics! Looking forward to next week’s #P2Chat^09/07/10 07:14 PM ET

JohnFMooreRT @transpr: Listening now! Good! RT @intellitics: RT @twipcast: audio on #crowdsourcing: http://bit.ly/a4Q3EG #P2Chat #edem #gov20^09/07/10 07:15 PM ET

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#p2chat August 31, 2010

Beth Offenbacker of Public Decisions hosts #p2chat, a weekly chat on public participation, Tuesdays at 6pm Eastern/3pm Pacific.

This is the archive of tweets for the August 31 chat.

PublicDecisionsHi everyone welcome to this week’s #P2Chat! We have a lot of great things to talk about regarding #publicengmt^08/25/10 11:08 AM ET

PublicDecisionsPlease introduce yourself for this week’s #P2Chat….name Twitter handle a little about you/your org^08/31/10 05:36 PM ET

PublicDecisionsBeth Offenbacker #P2Chat co-moderator with @Citizentools. @PublicDecisions: we use techn 2 enhance publicengmt thru distinctive online pgms^08/31/10 06:00 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat intro: Chris Berendes blogger local acitivist CTO for a fed contractor; interested in lessons learned about online engagement^08/31/10 06:00 PM ET

PublicDecisionsLast week we talked some about online and f2f engmt as part of #p2chat; let’s build on that gr8 thread by starting there^08/31/10 06:03 PM ET

PublicDecisionsPew Survey on older ple’s uses 4 Soc Med http://bit.ly/cBqFk2 Q: does yr org distinguish btwn diff demog in re social media strat? #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:04 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools Very true… we forget need to integrate the two into tool selection use #p2chat^08/31/10 06:07 PM ET

PublicDecisionsMy own observ is most orgs don’t distinguish betw demogaltho we prob shld. cld make engmt more effective. Will try to implem myself #p2chat^08/31/10 06:10 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions @zephoria pt: *how* a demographic uses a tool; e.g. young ppl disclose on #fb what I suspect elders don’t #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:13 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions examples of where not distinguishing has caused trouble? #p2chat^08/31/10 06:15 PM ET

PublicDecisionsdon’t have gd exmpl myslf. Think it has alot to do with what commty participants expect from engmt maybe? Needs/interests may vary #p2chat^08/31/10 06:16 PM ET

intelliticsJoining #P2Chat a bit late today. Howdy! ^08/31/10 06:17 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics hey. congrats on the wide play the “10 tips for online/offline” got #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:20 PM ET

PublicDecisions@Citizentools not so much prblmmore realiz “one size” doesn’t fit all…need 2 custmze online apprch on needs/int as w other meth #p2chat^08/31/10 06:24 PM ET

PublicDecisionsHey @intellitics! Always glad to connect w you #p2chat^08/31/10 06:26 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools @intellitics Have you seen need 4 diff in demog appr to soc med? (Is it just me surmising based on Pew report??) #p2chat^08/31/10 06:26 PM ET

PublicDecisions@Intellitics any word on the SXSW proposal? I voted for it can ppl still support? #p2chat^08/31/10 06:27 PM ET

intellitics@citizentools Thanks! @democracy just added a few more items in the comments. Good stuff! #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:28 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions Voting for #SXSW Panel Picker has ended. We’ll see how it goes. It’s a bit of a long shot. #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:29 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics since this is pretty intimate I’ll float an idea to extend participatedb #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:29 PM ET

citizentoolswhat if: get list from iap2 practitioners of favored in practice (or wished for) online processes; = use cases #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:31 PM ET

citizentoolsthen ask tool providers (w/some help) to self select for use cases they can handle and do short (5min) video demos ?#p2chat^08/31/10 06:35 PM ET

citizentoolsresults: non-techie get a better idea of how various tools work for processes they understand #p2chat^08/31/10 06:36 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools very cool idea…existing vs. desired. cld be quite fascinating 2 track #p2chat^08/31/10 06:36 PM ET

citizentoolsAND toolsmiths get better sense of demand and how to present their coooool tools #p2chat^08/31/10 06:37 PM ET

intellitics@citizentools Good! I was thinking about prototyping a “tool selection wizard” for the upcoming @NCDD Fall events. #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:37 PM ET

intellitics@citizentools That sounds interesting! From what I’m seeing uptake of “online” still very mixed early days etc. #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:38 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics shall we talk offline? #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:38 PM ET

PublicDecisions@intellitics will there be sort/search feature soon on participatedb? #p2chat^08/31/10 06:40 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat and for my next question: what have you/we learned as participants or organizers of online engagement?^08/31/10 06:41 PM ET

PublicDecisions4 me it’s that the idea of online engmt still new to some folks…esp in areas with dialup internet #p2Chat^08/31/10 06:41 PM ET

citizentoolsone long term lesson: exponential growth means that there are a lot of newbies #p2Chat^08/31/10 06:41 PM ET

PublicDecisionsearly adopters are into not evryone is tho. Ex:fam mem has tvdish in rural county NO email thru DSL cable etc. email at work tho #p2chat^08/31/10 06:43 PM ET

PublicDecisions…also means NO internet access #p2chat^08/31/10 06:45 PM ET

citizentoolsone reason why @democracy emphasizes email/web equal opp’ty for his dialog tool #p2chat^08/31/10 06:46 PM ET

citizentoolsa lesson as a participant: I can generally make myself heard (=loudmouth) offline; not always online #p2chat^08/31/10 06:46 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools Yes easy for us urban dwellers who are connected 24/7 to think all others are too.Smtimes internet just not avail #p2chat^08/31/10 06:48 PM ET

PublicDecisionsValue of mix of apprches impt; am wking on proj incl in person online as well as teleph mtgs and hosted mtgs 2 (proj in rural area) #p2chat^08/31/10 06:49 PM ET

PublicDecisionsLesson 4 me as participant: practicing active listening hard to do may be harder when I am not being neutral facil #p2chat^08/31/10 06:49 PM ET

PublicDecisionsOnline active listening takes on very diff dynamic naturally…how to listen *btwn* words meaning like at in person mtg?? #p2chat^08/31/10 06:51 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions “active listening” harder when online? (for me probably since many screens open etc.) #p2chat^08/31/10 06:54 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools Yes since we can’t always “hear” the meaning have to ponder more what is meant…value of emoticons tho! #p2chat^08/31/10 06:55 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions may listening online happens more slowly – offline you can learn a lot in 60 sec; maybe online takes longer #p2chat^08/31/10 06:55 PM ET

citizentools@intellitics any lessons learned as online engagement participant or organizer (or developer)? #p2chat^08/31/10 06:57 PM ET

PublicDecisionsThanks 4 gr8 disc as always @citizentools @intellitics! Have a fantastic Labor Day wknd and see everybody next week! #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:58 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions @intellitics over and out. let’s ponder our recruitment options a bit for next week. Perhaps a prize? #P2Chat^08/31/10 06:59 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions @citizentools Nice chattin’ #P2Chat^08/31/10 07:05 PM ET

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#p2chat, August 24, 2010

Beth Offenbacker of Public Decisions hosts #p2chat, a weekly chat on public participation, Tuesdays at 6pm Eastern/3pm Pacific.

This is the archive of tweets for the August 24 chat.

PublicDecisionsWelcome to this week’s #p2chat for Tues Aug 24 2010! Please post a brief intro of yourself (and remember to include #p2chat when posting)^08/24/10 05:58 PM ET

PublicDecisionsYou can also follow the discussion for this week’s #p2chat at http://bit.ly/dg46nu^08/24/10 05:58 PM ET

citizentoolsChris Berendes #gov20 advocate blogger on online engagement etc. looking forward to this week’s #p2chat^08/24/10 05:59 PM ET

PublicDecisionsBeth Offenbacker @PublicDecisions We use techn 2 improve practice of engaging people thru distinctive online conf pgms & classes #p2chat^08/24/10 06:00 PM ET

PublicDecisionsSpecial thanks to Chris Berendes @citizentools who has kindly agreed to co-moderate #p2chat; he also archives our chats too ^08/24/10 06:01 PM ET

PublicDecisionsToday’s subject is f2f and online engmt how to best integr8? Pointers suggestions etc. #p2chat (courtesy of @intellitics)^08/24/10 06:02 PM ET

intelliticsWe’re a participation startup from San Jos√© CA. We’re developing @zilino a new web app for online consultations. #P2Chat #opengov #edem^08/24/10 06:04 PM ET

PublicDecisionsOther topics welcome too! What questions subjects do you have about public engmt? #p2chat^08/24/10 06:06 PM ET

citizentoolsSo of @intellitics ‘s post on integration of on/offline engagement http://bit.ly/99Gbe3 I liked 345 – bridge back and forth #p2chat^08/24/10 06:06 PM ET

PublicDecisionsGood ex of comparison I came across (by accident) earlier today see http://www.cihr.gc.ca/e/42214.html (scroll down to App 2) #p2chat^08/24/10 06:06 PM ET

PublicDecisionsDon’t know much about how structured from p2 planning persp although wrote about another example on blog http://bit.ly/dmUtRN #p2chat^08/24/10 06:07 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions Great find! I’ll have to dig up the articles I’ve read on this issue (our wiki let me down last night). #P2Chat^08/24/10 06:09 PM ET

PublicDecisionsWhy do most orgs struggle with integration? Many seem to be wary of negative posts even with moderation; easier to control in f2f #p2chat^08/24/10 06:11 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat – what are some examples of struggling wit h integration?^08/24/10 06:13 PM ET

PublicDecisions@intellitics @citizentools Do you find that most orgs are on board with true integr? nonprof I am wking with likes which is good #p2chat^08/24/10 06:13 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools #p2chat I would say having limited ability 4 people to say what they feel needs to be said in online env too many "controls"^08/24/10 06:15 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat agree somewhat on controls but that’s more a prob w/online per se than "integration"^08/24/10 06:16 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat what strikes me about the App2 list is that w/online we don’t know who is ‘in the room" or who will see it later == unsafe^08/24/10 06:17 PM ET

citizentools.@intellitics you still in the #p2chat?^08/24/10 06:19 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools ok good pt on controls I guess I C balance in those instnces tipping more 2 f2f so then less emph placed on online #p2chat^08/24/10 06:19 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions The integration issue arose from @NCDD. Seems many practitioners are just starting to wrap their heads around this. #P2Chat^08/24/10 06:22 PM ET

PublicDecisionsso less emphasis means less integration; which raises Q what proportion of integration is gen the case betw f2f and online #p2chat^08/24/10 06:22 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat re @intellitics online/offline 28: why? say we had split f2f mtg betw. 2 breakouts: would we insist everyone spend time in both?^08/24/10 06:23 PM ET

PublicDecisionsWould love to see examples of good/bad integr. Can learn from both #p2chat^08/24/10 06:23 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools yes you are right about who is "in the room" how do orgs address this? Some req sign in from what I have seen/heard #p2chat^08/24/10 06:24 PM ET

intellitics@citizentools I think getting (some portion of) participants to engage both online and off could be very beneficial yes. #P2Chat^08/24/10 06:25 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat obviously I’m grumpy abt integration. Rather start w/ say "participant in either mode/brkout room has equal access to engmt proces"^08/24/10 06:27 PM ET

citizentools.@intellitics #P2Chat granted on 345; beyond that what’s benefit of offliners ALSO going online?^08/24/10 06:27 PM ET

PublicDecisionsAm thinking back to p2 planning disc p2 plan 4 proj should focus on goals 1st. Is there good chart showing online tool match 2 goal?#p2chat^08/24/10 06:27 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions re "who’s in room?" coolest I’ve seen is small rooms & mods who check-in w/all periodically eg Maestro teleconf #p2chat^08/24/10 06:29 PM ET

intellitics@citizentools Think I agree. Both online/offline need to support overall participation objectives both have strengths/weaknesses. #P2Chat^08/24/10 06:31 PM ET

PublicDecisions#p2chat …I mean that selection of tool for online has different implications than regular f2f so diff chart would be useful^08/24/10 06:31 PM ET

citizentools.@PublicDecisions re tool/goal match – intervening var = process. Some not all processes can be shoe-horned into certain tools #p2chat^08/24/10 06:32 PM ET

intellitics@citizentools Distinction between on/off should be less rigid IMHO. Let participants use whichever mode works best incl. both. #P2Chat^08/24/10 06:33 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools so true about variable of process; although factors with online like sensory overload data that shld be considrd #p2chat^08/24/10 06:35 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat – agree w/"use which is best for you" & mods will do their best to ensure you’re not a second class citizen +1^08/24/10 06:35 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions That’s a matrix we’d *love* to work on at some point. Btw @ParticipateDB might serve as starting point! #P2Chat^08/24/10 06:36 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools LOVE Maestro! would be gr8 to compile list of synchronous and asynchronous for engmt diff impacts/factors 2 think abt #p2chat^08/24/10 06:37 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat thing is a given tools often imports a certain "culture". e.g. against Twitter culture but not tech to string^08/24/10 06:38 PM ET

citizentoolstogether 3 tweets to say something at greater length. #p2chat^08/24/10 06:38 PM ET

PublicDecisions@intellitics Sounds gr8! Would be glad to collaborate on! #p2chat^08/24/10 06:39 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat so would be interesting to sponsor "culture breaking experiments" (which could work with ParticipateDB actually)^08/24/10 06:39 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools intrsting pt about culture…do you mean culture of tool itself or culture of org or community that uses(or all/some)? #p2chat^08/24/10 06:39 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat e.g. have AmericaSpeaks or World Cafe push Ideascale and surrounding processes to the limits see what they can do^08/24/10 06:40 PM ET

citizentools.@PublicDecisions #p2chat mean "how ppl expect tool to be used even though techno permits something else"^08/24/10 06:40 PM ET

PublicDecisionsAgree @citizentools. would be gr8 to create "lab" to explore how tools work in certain processes vs others #p2chat^08/24/10 06:40 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions Several "tool selection wizards" exist. Most fall short. In the end a lot depends on process design/facilitation. #P2Chat^08/24/10 06:42 PM ET

PublicDecisions@intellitics would be great to compile list of those too; most I have seen don’t include full spectrum of asynch/synchr; agree? #p2chat^08/24/10 06:42 PM ET

PublicDecisionsAm really interested in mobile phone techn for engmt apart from keypads (old school now!); any new uses u know of? #p2chat^08/24/10 06:42 PM ET

citizentools#p2chat not at all expert on tool selctn wizrds but suspect tjey mostly as useful/less as “how to pick up person of appropriate sex” tips^08/24/10 06:43 PM ET

PublicDecisionslol @citizentools! yes there is parallel that could be made there! #p2chat^08/24/10 06:45 PM ET

citizentools.@PublicDecisions #p2chat re mobile phone engmt – http://app.beextra.org/ for volunteering e.g. pix tagging via smartphone^08/24/10 06:47 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions Mobile is another very interesting area. Don’t know nearly enough about current usage/use cases. #P2Chat #edem^08/24/10 06:48 PM ET

citizentools.@PublicDecisions harrumph. parallel is that both the "tips" seekers and the "wizard" users are asking the wrong question #p2chat^08/24/10 06:48 PM ET

PublicDecisionsFave new mobile ph techn sends med data in remote areas back 2 lab for analysis. Sim idea could work for rural areas w transp data? #p2chat^08/24/10 06:49 PM ET

citizentools.@intellitics #p2chat re participatedb – any thoughts on including "micro" processes – e.g how each tool might (not)serve brainstorming?^08/24/10 06:50 PM ET

PublicDecisionsOr other ways that citizens could co-produce/partic in policymking…BUT going beynd ClickItFixit #p2chat^08/24/10 06:50 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools Didnotknow about BeExtra very cool!!Yes we shld b encourging this kind of collab IMHO in our p2 comm not just blogs #p2chat^08/24/10 06:52 PM ET

citizentools@PublicDecisions re beyond @seeclickfix in general see http://infovegan.com/2010/08/02/city-bankruptcy per @cjoh #p2chat^08/24/10 06:52 PM ET

PublicDecisions@citizentools Fascinating post on SeeClickfix! will read full article later. Int pt about incr cost of gov svcs due to more svc req #p2chat^08/24/10 06:54 PM ET

ParticipateDB@citizentools We hope to launch more capabilities soon to add such information. There are a lot of angles worth exploring! #P2Chat #edem^08/24/10 06:55 PM ET

PublicDecisionsWld be interesting to see what % req are taken on by citizens vs govt to fix #p2chat^08/24/10 06:57 PM ET

PublicDecisionsGr8 conversation @citizentools @intellitics! thanks 4 chance to chat 2night some cool things to think abt/work on in re f2f/online #p2chat^08/24/10 06:58 PM ET

citizentoolsGood night @PublicDecisions @intellitics Time for dinner w/my inamorata! #p2chat #schmooze^08/24/10 06:58 PM ET

PublicDecisionsThanks @citizentools! Am off to have a nice glass of wine myself. See everyone next wk same Bat-time same Bat station! #p2chat^08/24/10 07:01 PM ET

intellitics@PublicDecisions Ditto that was fun. Thanks everyone! #P2Chat #edem^08/24/10 07:04 PM ET

intelliticsNice! @amysue102 shares example of real-time three-way online/offline integration (F2F Skype SecondLife): http://bit.ly/bOsFsY #P2Chat^08/24/10 07:05 PM ET

mpeersRT @intellitics: We’re a participation startup from San Jos√© CA. We’re developing @zilino a new web app for online consultations. #P2Chat #opengov #edem^08/24/10 07:08 PM ET

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Twitter Weekly Updates for 2010-09-20

• Thx for #ff and RTs: @usabudget @transPR @ccfkc #
• WikiFactCheck.org appears: +1 @TDCrowdsource hypes this "pre-startup" as "instant" fact-checking: -5 http://bit.ly/aORXIn #crowdsource #
• score legislators' votes on past bills to rate longterm impact(or not) on US deficit http://bit.ly/9s3z1U @usabudget h/t @FiscalFuture #

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Describe now, define later – a better way to understand Life 2.0

When I venture into new arenas – social media, crowdsourcing, online engagement -  I’m fed by discussions with people who are doing this work. But, too often, the conversation gets bogged down by arguments about definitions.

For instance, in a chat about crowdsourcing recently, someone offered online commenting on government regulations as an example, then someone else – it might have been me – almost derailed the conversation by asking whether commenting really counted as “crowdsourcing”.

The problem: the person who’s just run a rule-making process that received thousands of comments knows what she did, how participants responded, what seemed to work, what fell short. But she – and all the rest of us – are clueless about whether this really is crowdsourcing.

In general: when we’re describing an experience or process we’ve experienced, we know what we’re talking about. But when we debate whether this experience is an example of crowdsourcing, we don’t.

Bold claim on my part, I know. And, one day, we’ll be able to agree, quickly, on whether my friend’s process was crowdsourcing, or collective intelligence, or prediction markets, crowd-storming, or peer production or something else entirely.

Why? We’ll, collectively, have more experience, and we’ll have come to (some) agreement on who the authorities are, and there’ll be some benefit to the definitions.

But today we’re still groping, learning what’s been done, identifying new combinations that haven’t yet been tried but look promising.

In effect, we’re crowdsourcing the definition of  “crowdsourcing”

(And if you’re thinking that this advice applies to discussion about “social media”, “Gov2.0″, and “online engagement” as well, you’ve got my point exactly.)

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Twitter Weekly Updates for 2010-08-30

• .@NoelDickover @digiphile apps v. oranges: http://bit.ly/dDzqF6 for dev'lprs , like data.gov http://bit.ly/dtkU8h for all @marshallk #
• .@dan_munz thx for #FF & convo. #
• participatory budgeting in playground design,by five year olds (imagine what adults could do) http://bit.ly/bgyHfJ #gov20 h/t @participatory #
• @elinws RT @timoreilly RT @jamesoreilly Gerald Clemente: America won the cold war but now is turning into USSR: http://yhoo.it/bn9yXr #
• .@IdeaGov @dan_munz re #Gov20 "It's up to us" on steroids: http://bit.ly/cCVGI6 DIY bridge repair on Kauai//cc @cjoh h/t @timoreilly #
• @dan_munz yw. useful: "Don't try to make the case for #socmed Instead, make the case for what you'll ACCOMPLISH w/ #socmed " #allAboutGoals in reply to dan_munz #
• @dan_munz "Build a process not a website" on Citizen Engagement Survival Guide webinar @GovLoop http://bit.ly/8ZhIBC Amen #gov20 #
• "[The users] may be there *on* hardware & software paid for by you,but [they] are there *for* one another" http://bit.ly/cLrK46 h/t@cshirky #
• . @PublicDecisions @intellitics The #p2chat preserved: http://bit.ly/bgM1SY Thanks for making it a rousing one. #
• @elinws welcome. What does Twitter want? http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1510/is_n72/ai_11255568/ in reply to elinws #
• Good night, @PublicDecisions @intellitics Time for dinner w/my inamorata! #p2chat #schmooze #
• @PublicDecisions re beyond @seeclickfix in general, see http://infovegan.com/2010/08/02/city-bankruptcy per @cjoh #p2chat in reply to PublicDecisions #
• .@intellitics #p2chat re participatedb – any thoughts on including "micro" processes – e.g how each tool might (not)serve brainstorming? #
• .@PublicDecisions harrumph. parallel is that both the "tips" seekers and the "wizard" users are asking the wrong question #p2chat #
• .@PublicDecisions #p2chat re mobile phone engmt – http://app.beextra.org/ for volunteering, e.g. pix tagging, via smartphone #
• #p2chat not at all expert on tool selctn wizrds but suspect tjey mostly as useful/less as "how to pick up person of appropriate sex" tips #
• .@PublicDecisions #p2chat mean "how ppl expect tool to be used, even though techno permits something else" #
• #p2chat e.g. have AmericaSpeaks or World Cafe push Ideascale and surrounding processes to the limits, see what they can do #
• #p2chat so would be interesting to sponsor "culture breaking experiments" (which could work with ParticipateDB, actually) #
• together 3 tweets to say something at greater length. #p2chat #
• #p2chat thing is, a given tools often imports a certain "culture". e.g. against Twitter culture but not tech to string #
• #p2chat – agree w/"use which is best for you" & mods will do their best to ensure you're not a second class citizen +1 #
• .@PublicDecisions re tool/goal match – intervening var = process. Some not all processes can be shoe-horned into certain tools #p2chat #
• @PublicDecisions re "who's in room?" coolest I've seen is small rooms & mods who check-in w/all periodically eg Maestro teleconf #p2chat in reply to PublicDecisions #
• .@intellitics #P2Chat granted on 3,4,5; beyond that, what's benefit of offliners ALSO going online? #
• #p2chat obviously I'm grumpy abt integration. Rather start w/, say "participant in either mode/brkout room has equal access to engmt proces" #
• #p2chat re @intellitics online/offline 2,8: why? say we had split f2f mtg betw. 2 breakouts: would we insist everyone spend time in both? #
• .@intellitics you still in the #p2chat #
• #p2chat what strikes me about the App2 list is that, w/online, we don't know who is 'in the room" or who will see it later == unsafe #
• #p2chat agree somewhat on controls, but that's more a prob w/online per se than "integration" #
• #p2chat – what are some examples of struggling wit h integration? #
• So, of @intellitics 's post on integration of on/offline engagement http://bit.ly/99Gbe3 , I liked 3,4,5 – bridge back and forth #p2chat #
• Chris Berendes, #gov20 advocate, blogger on online engagement etc., looking forward to this week's #p2chat #
• .@qrarts – need pointers on a barcode (qr or otherwise) based system for attendee badges, scanning, for easy exchange of email addies, etc. #
• people search for action(to book flight,fix leak,cure hangover), not for nouns or information http://bit.ly/aYqtwX (@edyson) h/t @digiphile #

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Twitter Weekly Updates for 2010-08-23

• Fascinating read: Shai Sachs on how to #crowdsource lobbying http://bit.ly/c0VRMD (while waiting for #gov20 #
• #gov20 crowdsourced ideation not "one size fits all" http://bit.ly/brc1xZ Goal:get many ideas? implement some? build community?(@publivate) #
• #dialogue ftw: amazing "how open hostile people are to being persuaded, so long as you reciprocate" http://bit.ly/ciQPTL per @conor64 #
• @intellitics Mine variations on this search http://bit.ly/bJb76e (driven by http://bit.ly/9YtxBS and Google) for more… in reply to intellitics #
• @intellitics water and online mapping http://bit.ly/94ZCYU and Second Life http://bit.ly/bSgCVx in reply to intellitics #
• @intellitics FutureMelbourne appears to have touched on water issues http://bit.ly/b6TxdA //cc @collabforge in reply to intellitics #
• @intellitics see "The Community of Practice for Environmental Water Managers" http://www.cop4ewm.com.au/ for leads in reply to intellitics #
• RT @smashingmag Online newspapers can evolve by mkg reading a game: http://bit.ly/btw3pQ [Me: but I want points from friends not newspaper] #
• What's the best twitter handle to use for Matt Leigninger/Deliberative Democracy Consortium? #TwitterHoldouts #
• #p2chat now turning attention to kitchentools and dinner. some great ideas here, thanks Beth, Larry #
• @PublicDecisions so agencies shld either commit up front to criteria/followup OR follow along & adapt as the #socmed engmt develops #p2chat in reply to PublicDecisions #
• @PublicDecisions Various Fed nat'l dialogs" via ideascale, etc. I think these tools are easy/low cost, but honoring results harder #p2chat in reply to PublicDecisions #
• @LarrySchooler32 Lessons learned? what changes, additions in tech or processes would have made it even better? #p2chat in reply to LarrySchooler32 #
• @PublicDecisions #p2chat HIGH: as with NO, PLUS: co reviews policies/products etc based on custmr qns, follows up to bld relships in reply to PublicDecisions #
• @PublicDecisions #p2chat I'd say: NO e = co answers cust qns one on one, w/no chg in co policies, products in reply to PublicDecisions #
• @PublicDecisions Let's rephrase: how is good cust svc w/NO engmt different from good cust svc w/HIGH engmt? #p2chat in reply to PublicDecisions #
• #p2chat Vancouver's "greenest city" forum http://bit.ly/bT3gz6 good example of tool support by standard good practices, e.g. facilitation #
• @PublicDecisions need more info tho: how engaged are the 26k followers? what *inter*actions happen via Twitter? #publicengmt #p2Chat in reply to PublicDecisions #
• .@LarrySchooler32 #p2chat Makes sense to put goal (not tool) at center, and array tools (fb, etc) around as they can help #
• #p2chat snarky answer: ppl talk/email/blog post a lot, but how much of THAT is signif? #
• #p2chat disconnet? meaning "ppl use it a lot" BUT ppl don't rely on it ??? #
• #P2chat Me:Chris Berendes, Netalyst CTO, most interested in a-online engagement success stories, and b-best p2 uses of ideascale etc #
• My Twifficiency score is 48%. Whats yours? http://twifficiency.com/ #
• #power & #gov20 @AndreaDiMaio:Until virtual communities have a place at the table, they won't matter http://bit.ly/duqxN9 #
• "it high time that crisis response organizations start viewing the public as part of the team" http://bit.ly/btYyNk (per @fema) #gov20 #

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Twitter Weekly Updates for 2010-08-16

• @digiphile Better link: http://irevolution.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/crowd-is-always-there/ in reply to digiphile #
• .@munigov20 @govwiki @NahumG @lovistalk – Thanks for the retweets and mentions. #
• .@lovistalk's right: failure is not an "option" for #gov20 http://bit.ly/d8HFeb It's an *investment* in #AgileGov for insight & opportunity. #
• visualization=>conversation=>data literacy: http://bit.ly/awzzYh shows UK budget cut options by party @davebriggs h/t @infobeautiful #
• http://bit.ly/agnRzt @thomrubel(@idc) blogs re #dc 311 #fail @participatory RTs, @BryanSivak (DC CTO) follows-up.Has Thom replied? #socmed #

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Invest failure wisely to generate insights for better government

In brief: Government is continually confronted by challenges that can only be met by discovery, since existing knowledge is inadequate. Discovery relies, in part, on experimentation. Fruitful experimentation relies on a tolerance for significant failures .

Last week, Lovisa Williams wrote a well-received post, “Failure is not an option”, arguing that

Most civil servants … recognize we are in positions of public trust…. Therefore, we have developed a culture where failure is not considered an option. If we fail, then there could be serious consequences….

In order for Government to successfully evolve to the next generation of government, … we need to ensure we have established a means where we can continue to feed the evolution….

We do have things that don’t work as expected and absolutely fail, but we don’t talk about these things even within our own agencies. We are also missing the potential for us to start exploring other paths or opportunities earlier.

She’s onto something very important.

Government action takes place in many different contexts. When the problems are familiar, we have well-known solutions that produce predictable and satisfactory results, and the consequences of failure are high, it makes sense to go for predictable results and sanction failure.

But today we face challenges that are unprecedented, even baffling, some consequential, even earth-shattering – such as global warming, deep sea oil spills, deflation, Al Qaeda and other deadly yet ghostly foes – some merely puzzling – such as social media, generational changes, and new political constellations. And we don’t yet have satisfactory solutions.

So, failure, to some degree, is inevitable. I’d argue, with Lovisa, against the massive, glacially slow failures that, if they teach us at all, provide too little new information, too late for us to change course.

Instead, I’d argue for, well-designed experiments, where we recognize what we don’t know and invest effort (and to some degree, failure) to generate insights that arrive early enough to make a difference. Instead of “spending” failure slowly, covertly, and massively, let’s invest it openly, quickly, carefully, and in small amounts, to create new methods, opportunities, and success.

Notes:

Eric Ries’s podcast on Lean Startups: Doing More with Less shows these ideas at work in business and entrepreneurship.
• @digiphile’s tweet mashing up comment’s on Lovisa’s post with @marcidale’s notion of #AgileGov was helpful in shifting my thinking in this direction.
• Then, Peter Norvig’s observation that “If you do experiments and you’re always right, then you aren’t getting enough information out of those experiments” put it all together. (Thanks to lesswrong.com for the pointer. )

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Twitter Weekly Updates for 2010-08-09

• extending my "bad #participation quot; case, http://bit.ly/c3iXHW @intelletics raises ethics, @publicdecisions asks "how to, in practice?" #iap2 #
• RT @davebriggs Blogging method: start something hugely ambitious, give up, use chunks as basis of several smaller posts.//feeling validated #
• Per @davebriggs: data literacy happens "in my head"/"in their database". I'd add: "in our conversation" http://bit.ly/cBtMt3 h/t @eDemocracy #
• .@lovisatalk Re individual Feds, we have 2 options to promote #gov20 trial/error: fire ppl less, or make consequences of firing milder #
• .@digiphile @marcidale +1 for #AgileGov if it draws attention to how government does & could work (all 3 branches, processes & people) #
• @intellitics My more cynical take: http://bit.ly/cuqMvu (But at least crowdsourcing requires listening…) in reply to intellitics #
• How long has @techpresident http://bit.ly/cSQJf3 used "cross-partisan" (v."non-partisan")? echos @jayrosen_nyu http://bit.ly/aVU4sk #
• Good: @lovisatalk for #gov20 trial & error learning http://bit.ly/bbxw87 How? Learn from Silicon Valley: http://nyti.ms/a8t8Ey #
• @participatory At 810 am EDT today, DC CTO responded, asking for details http://bit.ly/agnRzt #gov20 #workInProgress in reply to participatory #

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